At Lead YourSelf we say that “Business needs love, but love is not a business.” Do you agree? Do you feel that business needs love? – I was reminded of a book by António Pinto Leite, ‘O Amor Como As Management Criteria’. At the end of the day, when things go well, we want to believe that creating value or creating wealth is an act of love for society. There is no other way. The bad distribution of that same wealth, in a very uncontrolled way, is totally the opposite of all this. How do you promote this love in your business? – Sometimes it is very difficult to do. For example, when business goes wrong and has negative results, it is necessary to stabilize. The business world is a lot like a hospital, I liken it a lot to a patient in the operating room. When the patient is losing blood, we have to stop the bleeding. If the patient has a leg problem, we have to decide whether the leg or foot needs to be amputated for the patient’s survival. These are all management acts that cause enormous instability at the beginning of a relationship. This can sometimes be misunderstood. We also always have to take into account the defense of the weakest, with people who have the lowest salaries, for example, it is worth starting to understand that people also have a life, a personal life. It’s a matter of having a care and respect for the productivity of the people involved. Life is a passion, a person has to love what he does to be able to carry these things forward. Do you consider yourself an intuitive leader? – For me, intuition is perhaps the most important thing in management acts. I would even say that management is 80% intuition and 20% management. It’s more intuition than management, much more. That’s one of my ways of thinking, every week I tell people about it. Used to say that “you have to be good and like. It’s not enough to be good.” Do you like what you do? – Of course I do. It is a peace and a concept of love for what is most beautiful in life, which is happiness. It’s a purpose, a follow-up. Following something, following a direction. Even because I wasn’t like that and I learned to be. I was reading, I was learning. I was fortunate to travel a lot to dozens and dozens of different countries and was able to understand a lot about the world and what people are looking for. It is impossible to always be at peace, it is impossible to always be in love, we are an organic being and with each passing day there is a huge transformation, even in our cells. But in fact, the concept of happiness for me is doing what I love. I love what I do and even when I sometimes make difficult decisions that make me sad, I always feel that my conscience has not been sold and that my principles remain intact. When I was a child did I already feel that I had a vocation to be a manager? – When I was young I had some arrogance. I was in that period when I thought I was the best. I always thought I was really good at what I did, it was a big mistake and a big shock when I found out it wasn’t quite like that. I’ve been wrong several times. I thought I was going to be national MTB champion and I did it, but then I thought I was going to be MTB world champion and then I realized I couldn’t. I started to gain more humility. I am the seventh of eight children and that is why I was conceived very much towards success and to always be the best of the best. Which is very unfair to a child, because life is so much more than that. I received a very austere education from my father, but I always insisted on learning more by myself, always with some luck along the way. For me, luck also remains a lot of work. I like working on Saturday and don’t mind working on Sunday. I am a person who has my faith, my spirituality, which is perhaps one of the most important things for me and which does not involve injecting me with doctrines or dogmas, but rather discovering myself completely. Throughout my life I began to realize that competition is not very necessary. I live in a transitional phase in my life, where competition can be bad. In other words, it is important to realize that our passage through life is much more than that. If we manage to improve society a little, it’s much more interesting than competing. I notice that you remember very well the times when you were a child… – So I don’t remember! I remember every year. I have a lot of memories from when I was very young. Sometimes my family doesn’t even believe it’s possible to remember things so old. I have a very fulfilled childhood and adolescence. We were eight siblings and it was the older ones who took care of the younger ones, with enormous ease. We never needed anything, my father was financially capable, but he thought it was important for us to milk cows, for example. I still know how to do it today. I took care of agriculture, I did everything possible and imagined at this level. And that gave me great emotional stability. At the time I really didn’t like what I was doing, you know. He put me to work hard, it wasn’t exactly pleasant. Today I really like what I used to do and I like even more the education my father gave me. I was privileged. And back then, when I was a child, did I already dream of managing companies? – I always had the idea of companies because it was rare for a cyclist at the end of his career to have a very stable life. I started talking to elderly people very early on, on the bus when I was going to school. People thought I was crazy or something. When I was 7 years old I was talking to people in their 80s and this is not normal. I was more affectionate than other young people because I talked a lot to older people. And notice that an old person is a person full of experience and I think that was a big growth factor in my life. It helped me understand what I wanted to do. Knowing and wanting to listen, being available to listen. I asked a lot of questions and that helped me a lot, I started to mature in the face of life and mistakes. Do you feel that you are part of a less traditional generation of leaders? – Of course you do. I don’t fit into any more traditional type of leadership, nor do I like to be guided by anyone. It’s like that Frank Sinatra song, the My Way. It is very important to live in society and for me there are two types of wealth. There is the financial wealth that is created, often accompanied by a certain arrogance of thinking that you have a lot of money and there is the wealth of personal satisfaction, that of being able to transmit that wealth to society. To me this is the true concept of wealth. I don’t call it socialism, I don’t call it the right, I don’t call it anything. It’s my way of looking at life. Attention, it’s not about giving money to people who don’t want to work, but it makes sense to redistribute wealth when it’s possible to pay a little better, for example. I am exactly what my conscience tells me, which gives me stability and above all, which gives me peace of mind to rest at night. He has already publicly stated that “a good leader has to stay in the middle of his team.” Is this still your posture? – Yes. By the way, I would love to be able to do this in all my challenges. But it is always very difficult to do that when shareholders cannot be directly involved with the employee dynamics, for example. But of course I do, I like being around people. I don’t really like having a CEO’s office far away from everyone, I feel much more comfortable being in an office next to my employees. I like this proximity, after all they are my co-workers. I have no desire to be better than others, in the sense of being the boss or the boss. Everything we do is teamwork and often joint suffering when things don’t go well.